The songs are about drinking and taking drugs and womanizing — that kind of shit. The songs are about sin, basically, and being out there in the absence of everything — the energy of the universe or god or whatever. There are some positive songs on the record that offer a glimmer of hope. I don’t want anyone to worry I’m going to commit suicide; I’m fine.
So revealed Robert Pollard in 2001, about his twelfth album with Guided by Voices, that year’s Isolation Drills — written and recorded while separating from his wife of two decades.
In Pollard’s telling, it was his first big swing at a “big, sad rock album,” like the Who’s totemic Who’s Next.
Despite stiff competition over the years (hello, Moses on a Snail), Isolation Drills certifiably remains Pollard’s biggest, saddest rock album — a turning point in his discography and one of his most crucial releases.
Just listen to “Twilight Campfighter” or “Brides Have Hit Glass” or “Fine to See You.”
It’s the sound of Pollard getting realer than ever.
The Los Angeles rock band Militarie Gun — rooted in gnarly hardcore, but with hooky alt-rock ambitions from the jump — first turned my ear for a bunch of reasons.
For one, they sounded a little like if Isolation Drills was a band.
(Early guitarist Nick Cogan of Drug Church, heard all over their 2023 debut, Life Under the Gun, has serious Doug Gillard DNA in his playing, intentional or not — always in conversation with the singer.)
But mostly, it was clear that Shelton was a smart(ass) student of rock history.
Indebted to heavy music, yet contemptuous of its conservative trappings, Shelton has kept one foot in that world via his throttling grind/power-violence band Regional Justice Center — incredibly important in its own way, as it deals headlong with the incarceration of his brother. (Max Hellesto, now experiencing FREEDOM SWEET FREEDOM, is now a member of the band.)
But on a musical level, with Militarie Gun, he arguably has a higher calling — still heavy and relentless, but fully swinging for rarified melodic territory: the Beatles, the Beach Boys, the Who, ‘80s college rock, and beyond.
Militarie Gun’s second album, God Save the Gun — released Oct. 17 via Loma Vista Recordings — doesn’t really sound like Isolation Drills at all.
With Cogan and drummer Vince Nyugen out — replaced by Kevin Kiley and David Stalsworth, respectively — the role of the guitar takes a backseat, and synths, drum machines, and lush samples take its place.
Yet it’s the first album of Shelton’s where he fully lived up to Isolation Drills’ promise.
Whereas Life Under the Gun’s heavy topics flitted in and out, God Save the Gun is a full-scale examination of Shelton’s demons — a traumatic childhood, late-onset substance abuse, and a litany of true-to-life psychological horrors in between.
Shelton’s biggest hooks to date help the medicine go down.
Isolation Drills aside, Shelton has a long, well-developed obsession with GBV and Pollard’s various side projects.
One in particular blew his mind.
“I was watching the HBO Reverb set,” Shelton told me in 2021. “I was like, ‘What is this amazing song, “Alone, Stinking and Unafraid’? I’m going through all the records, like, ‘Which record is this on?’"
It turned out to be by one of Pollard’s side projects, Lexo and the Leapers — who made one EP in 1999, Ask Them.
“So, wait: This guy, who has a successful band, also does other bands that are intentionally less successful and harder to find?” Shelton thought. “That was kind of a revolutionary moment — the idea that the way you release music is that different things have different intentions as far as your audience reach.”
Shelton has a lot more GBV thoughts where that came from.
So I gave him another ring.
God Save the Gun is out now via Loma Vista Recordings. To purchase the album, click here.
What’s up, Ian?
Just making a song. I have aspirations to make a solo record next.
Where you get truly unhinged?
Yeah. The goal is to make insane political songs that are like dance pop. Like the synth-y, poppy Gorillaz songs.
What are your political views?
Radical. Not radical left or right. Radical in general.
I think Robert Pollard is writing the songs of his life right now.
It feels under-recognized that he is a genius. Not enough people are talking about how he has more songs registered with the BMI than anyone else, and it’s growing and growing still, and he’s still going.
Why is that not a bigger part of the conversation? Maybe he probably honestly doesn’t care, which honestly makes him that much cooler.
Maybe it’s because you can’t anchor a moment. And music is about moments. He’s continual. He’s unending. So, it’s hard to draw a line — to say, “This is the important one,” which is kind of what you need to do to make people talk. It’s a really difficult balance.
He can’t be constrained by the music industry, or even the limits of the human imagination. One of my heroes.
Yeah, same.
When making artistic decisions, do you think of Robert?
My biggest inspiration that I take from Bob is that I view it as my responsibility to always be writing. But where my trajectory or ethos splits away is that I just believe in greater editing, where I am so much more intent on releasing the ones where, 100%, I think every song could be a hit in his own way.
Bob is free to do as he pleases, and is kind of actively unedited. I think of a record like Under the Bushes Under the Stars, and I’m like, That’s the best edited Guided by Voices.
It has a really nice sequence to it.
Because of him, I view it as: Always be writing. Create 1,000 more songs than you need. And with that, one of his big things that some of his songs are somewhat sequels to others of his.
Oh, yeah, he does callbacks constantly.
So, I view it as, Well, I can go back to that. I could do a better version of a song that I already made.
You recorded “Big Disappointment” twice.
Not because of Bob, but because I don’t think Bob would do that. Bob did that with, what, “I Am a Scientist” and “Teenage FBI”? There’s not that many re-recordings.
But instead of being like, “I’ve already written this song,” if I get close to an old one, I’ll just stay in that one and see what else is left in it. And try to be like, “What would be the better version of this song?” Even if I’ve already released it.
When I first got into GBV in my early twenties, I tried to emulate Robert’s prolificacy. But this callous, shallow, arbitrary business that I’m now entrenched in makes me second-guess my process. How do you keep the creative fire going?
I think it’s just by being a fan of music, first and foremost. The guiding light is just being like, This one Who song — I’m obsessed with it. I need to figure it out. The nature of figuring out the trick is my guiding light.
Not attaining a million streams or whatever.
No, I don’t think about that at all.
What I’ve been saying with the new album is that people conflate poppiness with commercialism — whether or not it’s that I’m projecting the opinion, more than anyone else saying it.
But I love poppy music, and Guided by Voices is a huge part of that poppy music. They are poppy. They’re a pop band in so many ways. And it’s like, Well, we would have different lyrics if we were going for selling out.
Mm-hmm.
You know? Like, we would try to make these topics less jagged and more neutral.
You know, I watched this show Hitmakers last night on Netflix — where a bunch of songwriters go to a songwriting camp. Basically, they competitively try to write songs for pop artists. And it was so gross, because the lyrics are so meaningless. Just like, “We’re trying to write a song for John Legend.”
But the reason I got into Guided by Voices is that I’m a nerd, and I love studying.
Same.
And with Guided by Voices, there was so much to study and learn. There was so much to study and learn about. I’ve constantly found something new to be a fan of.
Give me a song from Robert’s past decade that really stuck with you.
“My Zodiac Companion.” It’s not that recent. Is that a solo song?
Yes and no. After GBV’s “so-called classic lineup” reunion flamed out, Robert hit reset in 2016 with Please Be Honest, credited to GBV. But Pollard sings and plays everything. Teenage Guitar-ed it.
I’m also still obsessed with ESP Ohio’s Starting Point of the Royal Cyclopean. Today, I was making a demo, and it was the synth pop Gorillaz thing. But now that I’m thinking about “Royal Cyclopean” — it’s kind of the melody of that song.
I was huge on everything around the 100th record [August by Cake]. That’s also close to where I drop off — [2017’s follow up record] How Do You Spell Heaven. That’s where I’m most current.
Why did “My Zodiac Companion” stick with you?
He’s caterwauling on the verses. But…
“Orbital ghosts / Attract sparks / Aftermath heaven…”
…he’s singing out of tune! And then the chorus hits, and he’s in tune. And I’m like, Would the chorus not hit as hard if he didn’t sing out of tune?
It’s kind of a Nick Cave trick. There’s a couple of Nick Cave songs where he very purposefully sings out of tune. And it’s agonizing when you hear it for the first time in a while — but when you know the interval in your head, it becomes no longer discordant, in a way.
I would never be so brave as to be willing to do that. I’m so concerned about people being like, “This guy can’t sing.” And Bob’s like, “I can’t sing. Guess what, bitch? I can sing.” It’s a magic trick that he does.
We were talking about “Hold on Hope” earlier. An outlier for Pollard in that it’s a completely straightforward, earnest ballad. But God Save the Gun is all earnest. The making-of documentary is called The Goal is Crying.
Yeah, the goal is crying. But with Bob, you can’t tack a specific meaning onto it — yet you do know that you feel something. It’s kind of similar to the Swedish pop way of writing, where the melody is more important than the words. And sometimes, a weird word says the emotion, even without directly addressing it.
I feel like I don’t really have that same approach, because I’m trying to use a hammer to say what I want to say. Whereas Bob is so much more. I think the emotional context that the melody provides informs the words.
“Hold on Hope” is maybe the most straightforward Bob. Of all his songs, that’s like the bar song, where it’s so earnest — and Bob really shies away from that. “Brides Have Hit Glass” and “Hold on Hope,” to me, are his two big moments of true sincerity.
Isolation Drills is the divorce record.
I remember talking to [Isolation Drills producer] Rob Schnapf about it. He was trying to reach Bob, and he only had his phone number, and it went to his ex-wife. And his ex-wife would not tell him that Rob Schnapf was calling him.
Whoa.
That’s what I heard. But yeah, I don’t know, it’s so interesting to see someone who is so open and vulnerable also be completely afraid of the moments where, lyrically, he actually cut himself to the bone.
Can you talk about your new solo project?
I literally wrote the first song last night, so I don’t have much to say.
But you were talking about writing differently. More politically.
The things I talk about all the time are, to some degree, politics and the state of the world. So I just want to make my absurdist lens known through these songs, because I haven’t done that. You know, Militarie Gun is meant to just be purely personal, for the most part. I’ve shied away from political things. But this seems like a good angle to approach a new project.
What do you most pay attention to on that front?
I’m mostly obsessed with the disconnect between people. There’s no conversation or facts anymore. I’m not going to go full fucking Red Clay Strays, “People Hatin’” or something.
It’s not going to be like that. It’s going to be much more observing it through a political lens of domestic terrorism and political violence, and trying to speak about love through that language.
“World’s Always Burning,” featuring Mannequin Pussy, ultimately didn’t make it on the record. Maybe it doesn’t really fit with the other songs. But it’s funny. What’s your relationship to humor in your songwriting?
I’m very proud of the lyric, “Caught with your pants down / Petrified in Pompeii / My hand wouldn’t have saved you anyway.” It’s such an embrace of nihilism and hedonism. But it’s absurd — a Pompeii masturbator reference. I definitely think that influence is from stand-up comedy. I love stand-up comedy. I think that Bob loves comedy as well.
I’ve heard that.
Onstage, I’m very loose, and kind of flopping all the time, because I’m just trying new things. Because I hate giving the same speech over and over again. I want to make it a truly live moment. With that, I take a Bob trick of introducing the songs incorrectly.
I’ve noticed that. You say the whole line the title’s in.
Yeah. I do it with this new song, “Kick,” because it clues the audience into the chorus. They’re singing songs that are not released, but they’re singing along by the second chorus. Because I go, “This song is called, ‘If I Kicked You In The Face, I’m Sorry!’”
“This song is called ‘I’ve Got Zero Elasticity in My Face!’” Then he might attribute it to the wrong album. What a perfect combination.
Yeah, it’s awesome.
Glen Campbell covered “Hold on Hope” late in his life, and it has the gravitas of Johnny Cash performing “Hurt.” Do you ever think about writing songs that people could sing after you’re dead?
I don’t think about legacy much. I don’t believe in heaven, so I don’t think I’ll be there to see it. I view it as irrelevant to me. A lyric I just wrote was, “They’re gonna make memes about me when I die.” So, I just don’t think about it.
Anything else you wanted to talk about? Anything I missed?
I feel good about it. I just love talking about Bob.
Wait, one more thing: You’ve told me about your obsession with GBV’s performance of “Unleashed! The Large-Hearted Boy” at Hara Arena in Dayton, 1994. But I never asked you why.
It’s one of the few videos where Guided by Voices are in their appropriate environment. They’re an arena rock band who just decided to record shittily, but here they are in their hometown opening for the Breeders, and it’s where they belong.
You can see it in their energy. [Then-guitarist] Mitch [Mitchell] is smoking a cig. Bob’s energy is incredible. I don’t move any bit similar to him, but I think about that clip when I think of a good live performance.